Posts by Half banana

14

If Abraham had gone to Kingdom of Heaven, why not John the Baptist?

by anointed1 in

jesus rated john the baptist as the greatest “among those born of women” (luke 7:28) hence after his death he should naturally go to heaven—especially so lesser ones like enoch, abraham are already in the kingdom of heaven.

(hebrews 11: 5, 6; 13-16).

in view of the direct statement of jesus: “i say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with abraham, isaac, and jacob in the kingdom of heaven” (mathew 8:11), people like abraham are definitely in heaven.

Half banana

Vanderhoven, most of the OT saints are also mythological, clearly Abel, Noah, Melchizedek etc are. Isaak, Jacob and co. were all made up as a foundational myth to legitimise the nationhood of Israel. The Kings of Israel before Hezekiah were made up as were the conflicting genealogies of Jesus.

Look, we are talking fairyland when we ascribe unknowable possibilities to fictional characters.

The key to this matter is to find out when and how and where the idea of "heaven" entered the religious consciousness.

Any reward by heavenly existence is certainly not given mention in the OT. To die old and satisfied (at an absurd age) was the ideal for patriarchs.The dream of the Jewish hope, as a landless people, lay in nationalism as a path to plenty, not in a mysterious afterlife.

14

If Abraham had gone to Kingdom of Heaven, why not John the Baptist?

by anointed1 in

jesus rated john the baptist as the greatest “among those born of women” (luke 7:28) hence after his death he should naturally go to heaven—especially so lesser ones like enoch, abraham are already in the kingdom of heaven.

(hebrews 11: 5, 6; 13-16).

in view of the direct statement of jesus: “i say to you that many will come from the east and the west to share the banquet with abraham, isaac, and jacob in the kingdom of heaven” (mathew 8:11), people like abraham are definitely in heaven.

Half banana

Anointed 1, a person could spend many human lifetimes trying to make the Bible consistent. It can't be done!

You must forget reason and have faith brother..............

As an alternative you could study in only one or two lifetimes, the background to the texts, mythos, ethnology, politics and cultic imperatives which are embraced by the Bible.

The fiction of Jesus is demonstrated by the very ancient history of the tale of the God-man hero.

In fact the very word 'hero' comes from the name of the son of the Egyptian Sun God 'Horus' who was as the myth relates, by virgin birth was born in midwinter of Osiris and his wife Isis Meri. Apart from Horus being an itinerant teacher, healer of the sick, raiser of the dead, he had twelve disciples and was baptised by his cousin Anup who was six months older than himself. The Egyptian name Anup not surprisingly translates as John in Hebrew.

So when Jesus "says" something in the Bible it is not him speaking, he never spoke, he never existed, nobody remembered seeing him or recorded his words.

No it was the Christ-cult leadership who embroidered and re-spun the old tales of the God-man hero.

29

Do any of the governing body of JWs exercise their conscience?

by Half banana in

the members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.. the australian royal commission hearing must have highlighted for the gb, especially jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an iron age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice.

today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour.

today, children's voices are not ignored.. the first and last resort of jws and their leaders is the doctrine of the "inerrancy of the bible".

Half banana

The members of the governing body, by being at the reins of a large corporation, must be confronted with situations which force them to think about the validity of their doctrines.

The Australian Royal Commission hearing must have highlighted for the GB, especially Jackson, the rational inconsistency of using an Iron Age dictum of "two witnesses" in a world which has moved beyond such rough justice. Today we have a scientific approach, we examine forensically, we have psychologists who can tell us about individual's minds and behaviour. Today, children's voices are not ignored.

The first and last resort of JWs and their leaders is the doctrine of the "Inerrancy of the Bible". It is a belief which is unsubstantiated by fact. When pitched against rational thinking and practice, the Bible comes out as completely out of date and virtually useless.

I really wonder how many of the GB know this?

Who will be the next to resign as a matter of conscience?

6

Geoffrey Jackson, Deuteronomy 18:22

by Spoletta in

not sure if this has been commented on, but while reading a discussion, deuteronomy 18:22 was mentioned.

i looked it up, and was struck by its connection to a remark made by geoffrey jackson during his arc testimony.

the gist of the scripture is that if a prophet declares something is from god and it doesn't come true, he is speaking presumptuously, and should not be feared.

Half banana

I agree with you Spoletta, and thought the same at the time of the ARC, Jackson was using tricksy talk here.

Indeed he did not deny that the GB were God's channel. He said that the proposition "would seem to be presumptuous," which as you point out, implied denial to the hearing but was not technically true.

His reply was a means of deflecting a direct answer to an acutely revealing question. Which could be worded: Do the GB see themselves as God's channel? Eight million followers do as do the GB themselves... and the ARC knew it as well. This is a primary reason why the GB have unquestioned paternalistic authority over their flock.

Jackson, him speak with fork tongue.

If the governing body of the JW org is not Gods's channel of communication, if they are not prophets or divinely inspired, what on Earth are eight million followers giving their very lives to this duplicitous organisation for?

Institutional masochism?

34

The December Broadcast... OMG- what the heck was that?

by Sliced in

"of course not- we want to eat from clean dishes!

dishes that have been cleaned thoroughly inside and out.

" we have to be sure the things entering our minds are clean... rejecting exciting fun stuff that features sex.

Half banana

Freud would have had a field day analysing the subliminal messages of the governing body of JWs ...........

34

The December Broadcast... OMG- what the heck was that?

by Sliced in

"of course not- we want to eat from clean dishes!

dishes that have been cleaned thoroughly inside and out.

" we have to be sure the things entering our minds are clean... rejecting exciting fun stuff that features sex.

Half banana

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13

A new documentary by the CBC in Canada about JWs and pedophiles!

by StephaneLaliberte in

french page: .

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/special/2016/12/temoins-jehovah-agressions-sexuelles-pedophilie-temoignages/.

the french video: .

Half banana

Good point Vidiot............and do the sheep know that their leaders are being penalized for non disclosure.............and do they realize that their generous contributions to the holy organisation goes towards paying off their enormous legal fines for disobeying the law?

What a scumbag outfit the JW org is?

15

Daily text for 12-7-2016 Gods promises "Dynamic"?

by NikL in

jw
friends

wife read me the daily text this morning out of the blue this morning and a couple of sentences stuck out in my head.. all of jehovah’s promises are dynamic, not static, because he is constantly working toward their fulfillment.

(isa.

46:10; 55:11) once a person realizes this about jehovah’s word, what he reads in the bible can exert a powerful force in his life.. .

Half banana

Sounds like they are trying to justify themselves as usual. A new doctrine in the early stage of being born: "Dynamic Jehovah". He's always changing his mind 'cos he is constantly working to fulfil his promises.

Jehovah or Yahweh was the construct of the minds of the people of Palestine, probably introduced by their truly dynamic sea-faring neighbours the Phoenicians.

Long story short: Jehovah never does anything ever, because he never lived!

His so called "promises" are only of use to religious demagogues like the leadership of the JW org.

I do like their comment

Once a person realizes this about Jehovah’s Word, what he reads in the Bible can exert a powerful force in his life.

The JW org speaks as if it actually knows something useful here . . . but all it does is create higher fences to contain the sheep within the fold.

13

Was the ransom premature? Shouldn't the effects of Adamic sin have been reversed at the time of Jesus' death?

by deegee in

if the ransom was paid at the time of jesus' death (mark 15:45, matthew 20:28, 1 timothy 2:6, hebrews 2:9), then why weren't the effects of adamic sin (sickness & death) reversed at that time?.

it seems to me that either:- the payment of the ransom was premature.

- god was not satisfied with the payment of the ransom; it was not sufficient to make up for adam's & eve's so-called "sin".hasn't god extracted enough from mankind as payment for adam's & eve's "sin" given the billions of persons who have lived and died?.

Half banana

Quick answer: yes!

Good question Deegee if you are seeking an understanding of the basis for Christian belief. The ransom is shot through with inconsistencies as mentioned by Island man and others, not to mention the problem of those who lived before the time when Adam was supposed to have lived. The ransom is just a fiction.

Adam did not exist, the Bible account is ludicrous if taken as a literal event. It has all the hallmarks of being one of many foundational MYTHS. Truth was never the object of this story.

Since Adam introduced ‘sin’ in this myth; an antidote would be needed hence the "second Adam" to buy back or reclaim the right to undying life. Myth ruthlessly requires symmetry, retribution and balance, in a way that real life does not. Cultists over the millennia have attributed various god-men saviours in this theatrical tale of redemption. It has usually required the sacrifice of the son of the Sun God at the spring equinox which idea in turn recalls earlier and more primitive methods for restoring equilibrium in the tribe; namely human sacrifice. (Bear this in mind at the memorial!)

The name Jesus (used earlier in Dionysian-mystery ritual) came late in the succession of players for the role. The early first century Christians did not give their saviour a personal name but although “Jesus” was in use in the late second century it was endorsed by the Catholic imperial Church of Rome in the fourth. By the fifth and sixth centuries CE the former names such as the crucified saviour Dionysus and the “Good Shepherd” Mithras and the host of preceding god-men, were proscribed by church decree on pain of death. ‘Jesus worship’ had been the great political tool for late the Roman Empire . . . and possibly had been a stupefying factor contributing in part to its downfall.

Isn’t it strange how there is no evidence for Jesus outside of the Bible? Roman history does not record a god-man called Jesus. Any successful literal resurrectionist would have been headline news at any time and at any place on Earth. History knows of none, it is only in mythology where we encounter people being brought back from the dead.

However do note how church authority has survived until today, secured and sanctified by Imperial Rome seventeen centuries ago and along with it, its most precious myth of the ransom sacrifice.

18

Around 100 billion people have died

by Funchback in

according to some, the earth may have 10 billion people living on it by the end of this century.

there is genuine concern about space and resources.. imagine, then, 100 billion people being resurrected to live on earth.

some jws will argue that not everyone will be resurrected to earth, including 144,000. imagine 50 billion then, assuming that half of the people who ever lived did something so horrific that they aren't deemed worthy to be resurrected.. jws who are lurking and reading this: where are they going to live?

Half banana

How is even one resurrection possible?